CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, Ethan Sands and Chris Fedor explore the noticeably more serious tone around the locker room this season, pointing to injuries, heightened expectations and the missing spark of Darius Garland’s infectious joy.
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Takeaways:
Q: Why have the Cavaliers been starting games slowly and falling into early deficits?
A: The primary issue identified is the team’s rotation, particularly the minutes early in the first quarter when Donovan Mitchell and Jarrett Allen are off the floor. During this stretch, the offense is funneled through Evan Mobley, who has not proven comfortable or effective as the primary offensive focal point. The hosts suggest that extending Donovan Mitchell’s minutes in the first quarter could provide the necessary energy and playmaking to prevent these slow starts. The return of Darius Garland is also expected to remedy this by adding another consistent ball-handler and reliable offensive option, though the issue will need to be re-evaluated if it persists after he is back in the lineup.
Q: The team was labeled a “work in progress” before the season. Are the current struggles what was expected?
A: While some growing pains with new lineups and stylistic changes were anticipated, the degree of the team’s offensive struggles has been more severe than expected. A significant reason for this is that Evan Mobley has not made the offensive leap that the organization, his teammates, and league observers had anticipated. This has held the team back, especially during periods without key offensive players like Garland and Max Strus. While Mobley remains an elite, high-floor defender, the Cavaliers need more than just “fine” from him on the offensive end to reach their championship aspirations. His inability to step up as a reliable secondary or primary scoring option has exacerbated the team’s offensive issues.
Q: What is the current vibe inside the locker room, and is there any internal friction?
A: The hosts report that there are no internal rifts or bickering among players regarding roles or playing time. However, the “joy” and “flamboyance” that characterized the team last season are noticeably absent. This is attributed to their early-season struggles and, most critically, the absence of Darius Garland, who is described as the embodiment of the team’s fun-loving spirit. The atmosphere is more serious, reflecting the high expectations for the season. While the players understand the circumstances behind their record—namely injuries and a tough schedule—the celebratory feeling is missing because they simply haven’t been as successful.
Q: Have the Cavaliers established a consistent team identity yet?
A: No, the team has not yet established a reliable identity they can fall back on, which is a point of concern. Unlike opponents such as the Houston Rockets, who are known for their physicality and tenacity every night, the Cavaliers’ performance fluctuates. The hosts dismiss the idea that the team can simply “flip a switch” come playoff time, stating that a team’s identity is built during the regular season. The constant changes in the starting lineup due to injuries have made it difficult to build this foundation. Without a baseline identity, the team remains vulnerable, as any single injury can drastically alter their effectiveness.
Q: How critical is Darius Garland’s absence to the team’s performance and chemistry?
A: Darius Garland’s absence is described as a massive factor in the team’s struggles, affecting more than just on-court production. He brings a unique level of “joy, flair, and flamboyance” that elevates the entire locker room’s atmosphere and confidence. His smile is called “infectious,” and his presence provides a different level of belief for his teammates. The hosts note that Koby Altman, the team’s President of Basketball Operations, has called Garland the embodiment of the Cleveland Cavaliers. His return is expected to not only boost the offense but also restore the positive energy and confidence that have been missing.
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Transcript
NOTE: This transcript was generated by artificial intelligence and could contain misspellings and errors.
Ethan Sands: What up, Cavs Nation. I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the One and Gold Talk podcast. And joining me today, none other than the man, the Myth, the Legend, cleveland.comcast, beat reporter Chris Fedor. And yes, it is another rendition of of the hey Chris episode. And today we’re going to get into our questions directly from subtexters and you guys can obviously become a part of our community by subscribing 14 days free or 3.99amonth. But Chris, let’s get into these first questions and I know you’ve been thinking about this a little bit. This comes from Stefan in Parma. In recent weeks, the Cavs have played a number of games in which they have dug themselves into a deep hole by halftime and need to play really hard to get back into the game during the second half. What can they do to change this trend?
Chris Fedor: I think the most obvious answer, Ethan, is change up their rotation a little bit. The minutes without Donovan Mitchell early on in the first quarter just haven’t gone as well for the Cavs. The minutes with Evan Mobley on the court by himself is kind of like the lead dog. Those haven’t gone well for the Cavs either. So they have this, this set rotation where right around the seven minute mark of the first quarter, Donovan Mitchell exits, Jared Allen exits, Lonzo Ball and Dean Wade come in, and then the offense kind of funnels through Evan Mobley. But we’ve talked about this a number of different times on the podcast. You know Evan as the number one option, Evan as the offensive focal point. That evolution just hasn’t come. He’s just not comfortable in that role. He’s just not as effective in that role. And I don’t think the Cavs are as effective in that role. So they may have to consider extending Donovan Mitchell’s first quarter workload a little bit so that he can be on the court for a longer stretch and he can bring the effort, the energy, the playmaking, the ball handling. I also think some of this might be remedied by Darius Garland coming back, which could be as soon as Friday against Indiana. It gives the Cavs another ball handler. It gives the Cavs another place to go for consistent, reliable offense. So I wouldn’t sit here and say that it’s anything alarming, necessarily. I don’t even know that it’s a nasty trend that has developed. I think. I don’t even think there’s a commonality on what’s taking place with it. I think it’s just something that they don’t have to overreact to, but they have to have like an honest assessment of, of what’s going on and how it can be fixed. And if this continues for another week, another two weeks, another three weeks and it does become a nasty habit or a bad trend, even with Darius Garland back in the lineup, then I think it’s time for them to really start to rethink things. But I just don’t think we’re there yet. Although you know them digging themselves these holes early in the game. It’s one thing to do that against Milwaukee, it’s one thing to do that against Memphis, against a Miami team that doesn’t have Bam Adebayo and Tyler Hero, but they did it against Houston and you saw the result of that against upper echelon teams. You can’t go down 14 points in the first quarter because you’re expending so much energy to get back in the game. So it’s possible, it’s possible that the game against Houston was a little bit of a wake up call of like, oh, we can’t just flip the switch. Oh, we just can’t turn it on for a half of basketball and walk away with a win. They tried to do that. It wasn’t enough against Houston and maybe that’s going to be their wake up call. Will be really, really interesting to see how they come out Friday against Indiana.
Ethan Sands: And Chris, I think that’s well said, right? I think the conversation of how Indiana and obviously the Cavs are reminiscent of what happened to them in the Eastern Conference semifinals to this Indiana Pacers team. But it was not this Indiana Pacers team, right? This is completely restructured team. No Tyrese Halliburton, Myles Turner is now on the Milwaukee Bucks. And I think this Cavs team, and Kenny Atkinson has said it before, they’ve continuously brought out their B team product, but they can’t do that against an upper echelon team. And I think that starts with the intensity and the focus that they have to have throughout 48 minutes. And multiple players have talked about this. Craig Porter Jr. Donovan Mitchell have all said that they have to play a full 48 minute contest. And I think that’s also another layer that we’re not talking about because this is a Cavs team that has known itself to not be great in third quarters. Right. Over the last couple of years they have not been great in third quarters. But this season it’s like, okay, we can get through the first two quarters and now we know what we need to do to be able to be successful against this team, Chris. They’ve had a lot of film, a lot of time for each individual opponent. I think being able to come out with a certain level of intensity. I think that’s kind of what Kenny Atkinson was telling us by implementing Naquan Tomlin in that starting unit in the last game. That is telling to what this cast team might need. And to your point, obviously up against upper echelon teams, but needing it in the playoffs is also in this category as well. But let’s get into this next question from our subtexters, which is we heard a lot coming into the season about a quote unquote, work in progress. Is this what you were expecting or is this something else entirely that requires adding something via trade?
Chris Fedor: No, I think this is kind of what I expected. I think the disappointing aspect of, of this, if you’re talking about the first 60 games, is just how difficult it seems like the Cavs work to get quality offense, to get quality shots. And that’s something that I didn’t expect to this level because I thought Evan Mobley was going to make another leap on the offensive end of the floor. I think a lot of people around the league expected Evan to make that leap, especially on the offensive end of the floor. Certainly the Cavs expected it. His teammates, his coaches, the executives, they all expected it and it just hasn’t happened. And I think that’s one of the things that to this point has held the Cavs back. They knew they were going to be without max troops. They knew for a stretch they were going to be without Darius Garland, and that was going to affect them. They were going to feel that, but they weren’t going to feel it as much. If Evan could take the leap on the offensive end of the floor. And he just hasn’t. He hasn’t. He hasn’t been comfortable in that kind of role. So I think to me that’s probably the most disappointing aspect. This was a historically great offense last year. This was an offense that at the beginning of the season, the N B, a GM survey came out and all of the gms across the league were asked who runs the best offensive style stuff, and Kenny Atkinson got a bunch of votes for that. So to see them be outside the top 10 for a majority of these first 16 games, that’s not. I didn’t expect it to that level. I didn’t expect struggles to that level. But in terms of, you know, trying to figure out lineups, trying to figure out rotations, trying to figure out certain kind of Roles, growing pains with, with the way that they were going to play because some things stylistically, offensively, and defensively were going to be slightly different. Yeah, I mean, I do think that Kenny Atkinson was trying to prepare people for this reality. I do think he was trying to brace people for this kind of situation that the Cavs were going to be in at the beginning of the season. So some of this is not that surprising. The loss of Ty Jerome was always going to be a big one to what the Cavs did on the offensive end of the floor, the three point shooting, the pick and roll ability, the playmaking, the shot creation, and. And you were going to feel that even more with Darius missing time at the beginning of the year. So I would say yes, some of this was expected and it should have been expected, but the level that it has gotten to, it has been, to me, exacerbated by Evan Mobley not becoming the player that the Cavs were hoping that, that he was going to become. There’s still time for it. It’s still early in the season, but to this point, he just hasn’t become that kind of reliable offensive weapon for the Cavs that they were hoping for. And that exacerbates, like, everything that we’re seeing on the offensive end in terms of struggles for the Cavs.
Ethan Sands: I. I completely agree. And I think, as we’ve kind of mentioned on multiple different occasions on this podcast, Evan Mobley is the baseline for what this team is going to be able to accomplish. And a lot of people in the organization, as Chris has mentioned on different podcasts, look to Jared Allen. And obviously that has to, in part because of his energy and how many different times you have to kind of tell him what you need before he goes and does it. Jimmy mentioned it on a different podcast about how Kenny Atkinson kind of like pounded his fist into his chest before having him enter into the game. Like, hey, get hyped up. It’s just you. There’s a duality to it. Right. You need both of these bigs. That’s why you have it constructed this way. Right. And I think the difference between the Growing Pains this season and the Growing Pains last season were that the Growing Pains are based around having both of them be successful and. And Evan Mobley has to take this next jump, but is being asked to do something completely different than what he was in the past. And I think that is what is difficult for him and what is continuously leading him to be in disadvantageous situations, because Jared Allen is a guy who has been kind of in a similar role throughout the entirety of the core four. And Evan Mobley has been tossed and turned into different situations. Right? Donovan Mitchell next to Evan Mobley, Evan Mobley by himself. And I think these differences are going to be would have been difficult for any player, but especially someone in year 24 of his life and obviously year five of the NBA. You kind of see the reality check that’s hitting him of this is what it takes to be a star. And I think the Cavs were also trying to figure out what level they were going to get out of Evan moley the seasons and they’re still figuring that out.
Chris Fedor: I think it’s important to point out that Evan hasn’t been bad. Right? Evan always is going to carry a high floor because he’s one of the most impactful defensive players in the NBA because he can roll out of bed and get like 16 to 18 point, maybe 14 to 18 points, he can grab six to 10 rebounds, he can affect shots, he can affect the thinking of the opposing team. So he’s been fine. But the Cavs need better than fine. If the Cavs are going to reach their ultimate goal, they need better than fine. And if they’re going to only have Darius Garland for three games in the first 16, they’re going to need better than fine. And that has been the disappointing aspect of Evan. It’s that like the ceiling that he was supposed to carry, okay, he made second team all NBA last year. He was a first time all star. You come into this year and you say, well, can he get into the MVP conversation? The periphery of the MVP conversation, Nobody’s talking about Shay Gilders, Alexander and Nikola Jokic and those kinds of guys. But in the periphery of the MVP conversation and then you say to yourself, okay, he was second team all NBA. Can he become on the periphery of the first team, all NBA, maybe find his way onto that team? And that’s what the Cavs were hoping for. I think that’s what a lot of fans were hoping for. And he just hasn’t shown that level of ceiling. He just hasn’t shown that level of growth. He hasn’t shown, honestly Ethan, that he can be. That he can be Robin to Donovan Mitchell’s Batman. Like it’s to a point where I think a lot of people are saying, well, when Darius Garland gets healthy again, Evan slides back into the third spot in terms of touches, shot attempts, usage, just roll within the offense. And then you say to yourself, maybe he’s going to be more comfortable in that. Maybe he’s going to be more effective in that maybe some of the eyes that are on him are going to be drawn towards Darius and and Donovan at the same time or maybe some of the eyes that are drawn on him or that extra defender that is coming to help over isn’t going to be as willing to help because some of the guys that he shares the floor with. But the Cavs. The Cavs needed more from him in the first 16 games. The Cavs were hoping for more from him in the first 16 games and he just didn’t provide it. So this isn’t a case of well, Evan’s been bad and he didn’t deserve the all star appearance last year and he shouldn’t have gotten the $45 million contract. No, it’s, it’s not that he’s been fine but the expectations for him were higher than just be fine.
Ethan Sands: Let’s get into this next question from our subtexters. This one comes from anew in San Francisco and Chris, I always get excited whenever a new sends into question question because it’s super nuanced and this one might be his longest yet. He says you have access to the locker room. What is your guys sense from inside the locker room on rationale for the start from the players themselves. Is there any internal player rifts we need to know about I. E Jarrett Allen? If just about effort why not try harder to Jimmy’s hole? And do these guys even have a switch to they can flip at this point and what does that even look like if Kenny Atkinson is saying we aren’t built that way on a physicality side As I said a lot coming from anew there and there’s a lot of different directions that we can go. But I want to start with kind of the last thing that he was talking about. I hate the cliche about being able to flip a switch in the playoffs. Either you are who you are or you are not. The Houston Rockets were a great example of that. I talked to Eme Odoka before the game in his pregame press conference asking him specifically about their identity and he again said everybody in the NBA knows who we are. Everybody knows that we’re going to be physical, we’re going to be tenacious and we don’t have to flip a switch because we are who we are. This cows team again still does not have an identity that they can readily rely on when any player is out. Jalen Tyson’s out. They need more defensive intensity. Okay. Darius Garland’s out. They need more offensive focal points. Okay. Well we have seen in years past this Cavs team struggles with, with staying healthy in the playoffs. If there’s a player that is missing from this list, if there’s a rotation player, it doesn’t even have to be in the starting five. As we can tell from this season, things change within the organization, within Kenny Atkinson’s rotations, within what he thinks about. And I think that is telling to the point that sure, you can make adjustments, sure you can change on the fly, which is important, but if you don’t have a baseline, if you don’t have something that you can readily rely on that is visible to you on any given night, this is going to be a difficult time when it comes to playoffs because again, there is no flip to a switch. There is no difference between who you are in the regular season and who you are in the playoffs. For this Cavs team we have seen in years past, LeBron James was not focused on the regular season and Lay were able to flip a switch. They had LeBron James. This team has Donovan Mitchell. Donovan Mitchell is an all NBA caliber player. Not saying he’s not good enough, but he’s not good enough to take over a series in the way that LeBron James was.
Chris Fedor: Look, I mean, I think that’s well said and I think they’re going to have to figure out what their identity is going to be as, as they continue to progress in this season. But I just don’t think we can bury our head in the sand and ignore like how they view the regular season and what they think is important to them. And they have talked about this a number of different times and they act like this too, that their hope is that they peak in March and April going into the playoffs. And that doesn’t mean do everything bad during the regular season and develop all these terrible habits during the regular season. It just means that they’re not going to try and win basketball games at all cost. That they are going to continue to tinker with things, they are going to continue to experiment with things even if the end result is not what they’re hoping for. Because as they have said, and again, they’ve backed this up, it’s about the process. And sometimes that’s going to yield a good outcome and sometimes that’s going to yield failure. And you can learn from both, you can learn from success and you can learn from failure. And I think as long as they do that, a lot of this will take care of itself. The other thing that we can’t ignore is that all of these guys can see the reality of this situation that they’re in right now. They’re competitors. They want to win basketball games. They’re not going to make excuses. But they don’t have Max Strus and he is critical to their success. And they don’t have Darius Garland. He’s only played three of the 16 games and he is critical to their success. This team carries a different ceiling with both of those guys available. That’s just the reality of it. They’re starting freaking Naquan Tomlin. Like, what? I mean, are you kidding me? This is a team with championship aspirations and they’re starting a two way player and a big part of that is out of necessity. Larry Nance Jr. One of the guys that they brought in this off season, was taken out of the rotation the last two games. He hasn’t given them what they were hoping to get from him. So if you’re Donovan Mitchell and you’re in the locker room and you’re looking around and you’re seeing Naquan Tomlin in the starting lineup, no Darius Garland, no Max Struse, no Sam Merrill, nine different starting lineups in the first 16 games, you’re just not going to start panicking in November because what you feel like is that there are circumstances tied to to the way that you’ve played. And that doesn’t mean that you just ignore everything that has happened in the first 16 games. And it doesn’t mean that you’re not critical of some of the things that you’re seeing in the first 16 games. And it also doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t question this team. Of course you should. They haven’t earned the benefit of the doubt. They have a lot to prove. They have a lot to show. There are a lot of people that doubt them. And the way that they’ve played in the first month of this season is just fueling that doubt. But, like, they also don’t have any reason to overreact and they also don’t have any reason to panic here. Like, if there’s one thing that that is worrisome, it’s what we’ve already talked about on about five different podcasts in the last 10 days. And it’s the Evan Mobley thing, because he controls whether or not they win a championship. He controls more so than anybody else whether they compete for a championship. And the fact that when he was thrust into a bigger role, when he was more of a focal point of the offense, it just didn’t look good. It didn’t look good for Evan. And it didn’t look good for the Cavs. Like, that is a real thing. That is a real thing that. If you’re doubting the Cavs, you’re pointing at that. Right?
Ethan Sands: But.
Chris Fedor: But I don’t think there are, like, so many things in this first month of the season based on how the Cavs have played. There are, like, troubling signs that can’t be fixed. I think a lot of their problems, a lot of their flaws, not all of them, but a lot of them are correctable. And I think some of them are going to be fixed, and the product itself, the end result itself, is going to look a lot better when they’re closer to full strength. But I think. I think it’s natural for players to look around and see the reality of their situation and say, well, look, there are circumstances tied to how we’re playing here. These are real things that we’re trying to navigate at the beginning of the season, including a hellish schedule. So I do think that when you talk about, is the locker room connected? Are the vibes good? I think they are. They certainly aren’t to the level that they were when The Cavs won 15 in a row to start last year. But. But I think that’s natural. I don’t. I don’t see bickering. I don’t see guys complaining about a lack of playing time or touches or usage or things along those lines. I don’t see alarming signs. I just don’t see the same joy, the same flamboyance, the same celebratory locker room. But it’s because they haven’t been as successful at the beginning of the season, and because they don’t have two guys, well, one guy in particular and Darius, who embodies that, that kind of fun, that kind of joy, that kind of flair, that kind of flamboyance. So I think there are issues. I think something is off with the way that this team is playing, but I don’t think there’s any reason to panic. I don’t think there’s any reason to overreact. And I don’t think if you were somebody that came into this season saying to yourself, you know, the Cavs are the team to beat in the Eastern Conference. The Cavs are the favorites in the Eastern Conference. I don’t think that I have seen enough, and I don’t think there’s any reason for anybody to change that viewpoint.
Ethan Sands: Chris, I want to go back to an article that you wrote at the beginning of last year, when Darius Garland had lost his joy and then regained it. Right. This is a player and we talk about what Darius Garland brings on any given night.
Chris Fedor: Right?
Ethan Sands: We understand the offensive skill set that he has and what he brings. The level of joy that he brings to the environment, which is the Cavs locker room, is breathtaking. It’s so different. And I was at the Evan Mobley Family foundation gala tonight, and obviously a lot of different fans are there to experience all these things, but when Darius Garland walked into the room room, it was a different level of, okay, one, we haven’t seen you in forever, but two, this is a guy whose smile can be infectious to whatever anybody is doing. And imagine if that smile comes in part with a big win or a big run or a cavalanche. I actually had this conversation with a reporter at last night’s game. Do the Cavs have joy? Are they playing with. And I think that’s a legitimate question because at points you can see it after wins, Lonzo Ball is blasting the speaker on in the locker room, playing Jello, his brother and all these other artists. But, like, when they lose, you can tell it’s a completely different vibe. And sure, that happens in every locker room, not just in the NBA, but mlb, NHL, NFL, whatever you want to talk about. When you lose, it’s different. But last year it didn’t feel like that. Last year they were still having so much fun. And of course, that goes in part because they were a 64 win team, but it’s also just the environment that they had created. And now, especially with Kenny Akinson being more critical of what we’ve talked about, you can tell this, like, not tense, but more serious energy that this cast team has because they understand, one, the expectation for them this year. But two, what could happen to a team that they felt was on the cusp of championship contention if they don’t get there this year?
Chris Fedor: Well, I think the other thing pertaining to Darius is, yeah, I mean, he brings joy, he brings that flair, he brings that flamboyance, but he also brings a different level of belief. If you’re playing alongside him, you know what you’re capable of as a basketball team. When you don’t have him out there, you’re not as capable, you’re not as formidable on the offensive end of the floor. And I think with Darius comes a level of confidence. With Darius comes a level of belief. I mean, it’s one thing for the Cavs to, you know, do all these different things and celebrate and play music and stuff like that. After winning Games, you’re right. But it’s like with Darius, it’s organically there, you know, and people have had a problem with that. Right? People have had a problem with him smiling through losses or making light of a losing streak or something along those lines. But I think every single NBA locker room, Ethan needs like the right kind of mix. And, and I do think that I’m trying to think about the locker room. I, I, I don’t think there’s anybody that, that brings that, that joyousness to the level that Darius does. And, and everybody has their own way of approaching things. Max Strus is more no nonsense. Right. Sam Merrill is incredibly analytical. Jared Allen is probably goofy and aloof. DONOVAN Mitchell is Mr. President. What does this situation call for? And his demeanor is probably going to reflect that. You know what I mean? But like the, the Darius component, it can’t be overlooked because there’s just Kobe. Altman has always said the president of basketball operations for the Cavs, he has always said that like Darius is the Cleveland Cavaliers. He’s the longest tenured member of the Cavaliers. But they embody so many of the things that, that Darius brings to the table. And I think there’s a lot of truth to that. And again, I think it has bothered people in the past. I think there have been questions about his basketball related maturity. But, but when he’s not there and you know what it’s like when he is there. There is just a different feeling when he’s not there.
Ethan Sands: All right, Chris, last question from our subtexters. And this one is a fun one. Was the Jared Allen dunk on Alpharen Shangoon the greatest dunk you’ve ever seen? And Chris, I know you’ve been around this team for a while now. Can you recollect the most lopsided dunk that you’ve witnessed? And is Jarrett Allen’s dunk over Alfred Shango that did not count even in the top five.
Chris Fedor: No, it’s not in the top five because it didn’t count. It was an offensive foul and it was kind of like a throw in more so than a dunk. Blake Griffin, I mean Blake Griffin esque. The other thing about it is, think about it. It’s November, not really a game of consequence. I think back to NBA history and I immediately go to some of these consequential dunks. When do they happen? What are the stakes? What’s the stage? What’s the opponent that you’re playing against? I wasn’t there in person, but the Vince Carter dunk over Frederick Vice, Team usa. That one. What is it labeled? The dunk of Death. I mean, what? Something is called the dunk of death? And look, Jarrett’s was good. Jared didn’t even know that he had made it. He was baffled that he actually made it. He knew that there was going to be an offensive foul called on him. I talked to him a little bit about it in the locker room after the game, but. But it was good. It was good. But we can’t be president a moment here. Especially because it didn’t count. And he was called for an offensive foul on it. Vince Carter, the dunk of death. Like, are you kidding me? That one was incredible. I think LeBron got Yusuf Nurkic. Was it Nurkic? One of those big dudes, seven footers, known for just, like, anchoring the pain. And LeBron loved posterizing those kinds of guys. He got him on one that. That kind of brought me out of my seat. Those. Those two stand out to me. Specifically. Specifically. I’m trying to go through some other ones. You know, Jarrett had one where it looked like he took off from the foul line. Was it last year, two years ago, three years ago? All these years just kind of blend together. But it looked like he took off from the fall line and he just, like, soared. That one was pretty incredible, too. There’s some Aaron Gordon dunks that I remember being awesome.
Ethan Sands: I mean, Chris, even if we’re talking about, like, dunks that didn’t count, Jared Allen’s probably not in my top. I’m sorry, but John Milan dunked on Victor Wembign.
Chris Fedor: That was great.
Ethan Sands: So if we’re thinking about, like, dunks that didn’t count versus dunks that did count, maybe J. I haven’t done the research to know if Jared Allen is going to be in my top five for dunks that didn’t count. But, like, I recollect via Williamson dunks, like, Donovan Mitchell tried to go for an East Bay after a foul call. That wouldn’t have counted. Right? Like, the amount of dunk. Zach Levine. The amount of dunks that we’ve seen in games where, like, foul gets called. And then just like some of the bounciest players in the league are like, give the fans a show.
Chris Fedor: I will say, though, Jared has bounce and it’s a little bit unexpected, I guess, because, like, he can pull out some really, really incredible ones. And also the thing about him is he is fearless. He doesn’t care. He’ll go at anybody. Just, like, he’ll try and block some of these dunk attempts and stuff like that too. So I give him a lot of credit for, for that as well. Didn’t LeBron have one when he was in Miami? I mean, the, the DWAYNE WADE ALLEY Oop to LeBron thing was really, really cool, but didn’t LeBron have one over Jason Terry or something like that of the Celtics? I want to say.
Ethan Sands: Oh, my God. You talking about when they called a flagrant foul because he taunted him after. Yes, that is one of the greatest dunks of all time. That did not count. Or it did count, but it got a flavoring call. I don’t remember what the actual official terminology for that was, but yes, not on a poster, on a T shirt. That was absolutely devastating. So, yes, there are multiple dunks that come to mind. Sorry to the subtexter who might have thought that that was the best dunk. I don’t know if Jared Allen would think that’s the best dunk that he’s had in his career. I would have to go ask him because he’s had some pretty good ones too, as Chris mentioned.
Chris Fedor: Yeah, we can’t forget about Jordan over Ewing. And then I think there was one. It was the white center, bad free throw shooter. Shaq got him. What is his name? Way back, like Shaq went nuts on the top of a head style dunk. Oh, Chris Dudley. That, that’s who it was. Shaq was with the Lakers at the time and I think he just, I think he dunked it so hard over the top of Dudley that he just hung his nuts on top of his head for a few seconds. That’s as, that’s as disrespectful as it gets. I’m sure Ant has one. What was the one where he kind of like pushed off of the dude’s shoulder? It was very, very recent. So I, I, I loved Jared’s dunk. I, I grabbed the reporter next to me, Danny Cunningham from Locked On Cavs. It almost made me fall out of my seat because he made that dunk. It was good in the moment, but, but I just don’t think it’s going to go down in the annals.
Ethan Sands: The Indiana pictures are kind of coming in with nothing to lose. What Benedict Matheran might try to pull out of his bag, but I think that’s something we all can look forward to. And even if Donovan Mitchell is not dunking like he used to, I think everything that he puts together, even without putting the ball in the rim, is exciting. So with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Clock podcast. But remember to become a Cavs insider. Any Interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. Sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.com cabs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris, and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast. It’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through Subtext. Y’ all be safe. We out.
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